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Re: Browser vendors win war with W3C over HTML and DOM standards




In <news:UYudnRvdp9t9423BnZ2dnUU7-QPNnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS48 graced us with on
> 5/30/2019 7:57 AM:
> > On 5/29/19 10:06 PM, Sailfish wrote:  
> >> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS48 graced us with on 
> >> 5/29/2019 1:43 PM:  
> >>> On 5/29/19 10:47 AM, »Q« wrote:  
> >>>> In <news:BZ6dndjo5vm9-3DBnZ2dnUU7-Q_NnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> >>>> Sailfish <NIXCAPSsailfish@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>  
> >>>>> REF:
> >>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/browser-vendors-win-war-with-w3c-over-html-and-dom-standards/ 
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
> >>>>> An industry group made up the four major browser vendors, such
> >>>>> as Apple, Google, Microsoft, and Mozilla, have won a tug-of-war
> >>>>> with the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), the standards body
> >>>>> for the World Wide Web, effectively proving that without their
> >>>>> support, the W3C's ability to regulate web standards is
> >>>>> nonexistent. \" /]
> >>>>> When competitors own standards criteria, 'standards' becomes an
> >>>>> oxymoron.  
> >>>>
> >>>> The article sort of makes it seem that the major browser vendors
> >>>> (is Mozilla really still "major"?) have tighter control of the
> >>>> WHATWG standards than they actually do.  Anyone can contribute
> >>>> to the discussions (kinda like W3C);  the standards editors who
> >>>> make the decisions about what's in or out are supposed to take
> >>>> all the input into
> >>>> account, and AFAIK they have a pretty good reputation for doing
> >>>> so. Them main power the browser vendors have is that if they
> >>>> think things are going off the rails, they can impeach and
> >>>> replace an editor.  I don't think they've ever done so.
> >>>>
> >>>> I could be off on some or all of that -- I haven't paid much
> >>>> attention to the WHATWG since Hixie was the HTML5 editor.
> >>>>
> >>>> The last time W3C lost to WHATWG, over whether the future of the
> >>>> web was HTML or XHTML, the W3C kept its position as "the"
> >>>> standards organization by adopting WHATWG's HTML standard.  At
> >>>> that point, there was some talk within the WHATWG about
> >>>> dissolving itself as no longer necessary.  Now it looks like the
> >>>> W3C may be the one to dissolve over the next few years.
> >>>>  
> >>>>> Also, I always preferred W3C documentation over WHATWG's.  
> >>>>
> >>>> Only prefer?  ;)  I always found WHATWG's documentation 100%
> >>>> useless. 
> >>>
> >>> Pardon my ignorance but wasn't Mozilla Developer Network supposed
> >>> to be the home for documentation?
> >>>
> >>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web>
> >>>
> >>> I can't recall when or where I read about that decision. Might
> >>> look later.
> >>>  
> >> I recall them announcing that as couple of years back:
> >> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-microsoft-google-w3c-samsung-together-create-cross-browser-documentation-mdn/ 
> >>
> >>
> >> but haven't read much about it since then. Is it just me or is
> >> there one major player, and a big one, that isn't included in that 
> >> announcement?  
> > 
> > Apple? WHATWG? It does say "other industry leaders".
> >   
> Apple was the one I meant. To mention Google, Microsoft and Samsung
> and NOT Apple suggests a lot, no?

I went poking around Apple's web site for web developer documentation
but I only found docs aimed at iOS-app developers.  I dunno, but maybe
Apple just doesn't give a rats' about helping web developers?  

Does Safari come with the kind of dev tools Firefox and Chrome do?

[note to self: never type "developers" more than once in the same post,
as it conjures up images of Ballmer]

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