Re: [Mingw-msys] Maintnance script
- Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:11:10 +0000 (GMT)
- From: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@xxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: [Mingw-msys] Vista users: please test the new MSYS snapshot
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007, Keith Marshall wrote:
> On Saturday 08 December 2007 11:35, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> > To propose Console2, admitting that it does not run on older Windows
> > (which are way preferable to me, since I have lots of licenses for
> > them that work, thanks to Microsoft's insistence on selling Windows
> > with every computer, and they run way faster in
> > virtualisers/emulators) is what qualifies as "half-assed" with this
> > coder.
> If you'd taken the trouble to read my suggestion *properly*, you'd
> realise that I *wasn't* suggesting adoption of Console2, for this reason
> amongst others. What I did suggest was adopting their method for
> interaction with the stdio streams, but in a truly open GUI framework,
> which *could* support those older Woe32 versions.
Okay, sorry, I did not take the trouble to read your suggestion properly.
> > > There are two officially supported methods of running the MSYS
> > > shell:--
> > >
> > > 1) In a native Woe32 console. ?This is the only one of the two which
> > > is truly robust; it has always been available, and is the default
> > > choice for Cygwin, but not for MSYS. ?In a recent poll, on this
> > > list, those who bothered to respond were unanimous that it should
> > > also become the default for MSYS.
> > I wasn't there; I would have opposed.
> > Even if we have to use cmd/command.exe with msysGit, since for example
> > ssh password input or paging with "less" does not work properly in
> > rxvt, the shortcomings of cmd/command are so annoying that I curse out
> > loud in the general direction of Redmond almost every time I have to
> > use it.
> If you think that running MSYS in a native Woe32 console means running
> cmd.exe or command.com, then perhaps you should question your own
> understanding of the issues, before branding others as incompetent.
The native console on Windows XP is cmd.exe.
> > Think resizing the window (not that hard, everybody else seems to do
> > it just fine).
> Yes, this is about the *only* real limitation of the native console.
> Console2 is able to do this, while still maintaining proper interaction
> with the stdio streams; that's why I suggested that their *technique*
> may be worth exploring.
I tried Console2 twice. The first time I did, it had massive problems
rendering the text properly. But my second try did not confirm that, and
I did not have time to reproduce the exact setup of the first try to find
out what was changed.
> > Think copy/pasting (you have to enable it manually!
> One time *only*, then you can forget about it.
One time per box/reinstall. Oh, and per user who downloads MSys. And on
some setups (don't pretend you have not see them) per reboot, because the
admins reset the registry on boot.
> > you have to _right_ click to finish the selection!
> So what? Sure, it's a little bit different, but you can quickly get
> used to it. I don't see this as a particular problem.
So we disagree.
> > You can forget about multi-line selections if the first line of what
> > you want to select does not start in the first column).
> Yes. This can be a bit fiddly, but achievable nonetheless.
And you can move to a new house by bike. It is just very inconvenient.
> > Think scrolling back with a keyboard shortcut.
> This is a limitation; I've learned to live with it. Console2 can do it,
> just like in the KDE konsole on my Linux box, so no reason an MSYS work
> alike couldn't be developed.
I can live with it, too. However, I like to live a _happy_ life.
> If you are suggesting Earnie is incompetent, [...]
I came nowhere near that. Neither will I, ever.
> We live on their OS platform [Windows], so we just have to do the best
> we can with what they provide.
No, I live on planet earth. When I have to work on Windows, I try to
solve the issues beforehand, rather than live with limitations.
That is the reason we rewrote spawnvpe() in msysGit, since the native
version of that function is too limiting. Actually, we have quite a lot
of examples where we do not just take what they provide, since it is not
> > BTW another solution to that console problem I will explore is using
> > Xming. ?A guy on #git told me that startup is almost instantaneous.
> > And it has all the advantages of X11, since it _is_ X11.
> Thanks. I'll take a look, next week.
Me, too ;-)
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