Re: Lost behavior between KDE 18.104.22.168 and 5.5.5
- Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 01:45:13 +0000 (UTC)
- From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@xxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: Lost behavior between KDE 22.214.171.124 and 5.5.5
Draciron Smith posted on Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:26:56 -0500 as excerpted:
> That's not a big issue for me since I only use Kmail to open mail
> archives and cannot use it in KDE 5 anyway as it brings up Akondi and
> Akondi buries my system. I'll download the strait Ubuntu rather than
> Kbuntu and see if Trinity is supported on that and give it a try. I use
> Chrome primarily, Firefox for some stuff. Occasionally Opera. Not a big
> fan of Konquerer.
FWIW I tend toward the leading edge here, as opposed to the trailing
being primarily discussed here, which means I had to deal with these
problems some years ago now and they're pretty much history for me at
this point, but here's how things turned out for me.
For mail I had been on kmail nearly a decade when the kdepim team jumped
the shark with akonadi and forced it for kmail. Now mail /should/ be a
solved problem these days, it's /not/ new rocket science after all, and
kmail had clearly worked well for me for nearing a decade, no database
necessary for fast and stable access (then or on the mail app I switched
to and use now) but it quickly became clear that wasn't the way the kdepim
team saw it. For them it was a toy to play with and unnecessarily
complexify with a less stable binary-form database, regardless of the
stability implications for its (formerly) loyal users.
I see you mention switching to webmail below, but I don't particularly
like that idea for a number of reasons including security, mail archive
access and portability, and potentially privacy.
I evaluated my mail options and ended up switching to (the gtk-based)
claws-mail, which I remain extremely happy with now several years later.
Switching and converting my archives to claws-native mh-format (which
sort of like maildir uses a file per message) was a bit of a pain, but it
was well (VERY well!!) worth it, and perhaps the best part, given their
developer- *and* userbase's emphasis on scriptable access to text-based
formats, they're extremely unlikely to do what the kdepim team did with
kmail and entirely unnecessarily destabilize, complexify and memory-
hoggify it with some sort of binary-database format... and if they do,
there's enough other mh-format-compatible clients, including the sylpheed
that claws was originally the testing branch for and the command-line
based mutt, that users shouldn't be stuck without a viable alternative.
Meanwhile, the worst mail store damage I've seen after a crash is
inaccurate unread-mail counts on recently active folders, and that syncs
as soon as you enter the folder or (further) new mail is fetched to it.
The only other kdepim-based app I used in the kde3 and pre-akonadi kde4
era was akregator, but as it happens, claws-mail has a very good feed-
client extension as well, and that's what I ended up switching to, tho I
prefer keeping feeds and mail separate, so I run a second claws instance
(needs pointed at a different data and tmpdir to keep the instances
separate), with a different icon theme to tell them apart on sight, for
As that got me off of kde for mail and feeds, and I was already off of it
for news (the gtk-based pan, which has always been better for me than
knode, in part due to better binary handling), web (had already switched
to firefox in the early kde4 era when it became clear konqueror wasn't
getting security-support appropriate to a primary-use browser, and later
to chromium), media player (dropped kaffeine for the qt-based smplayer
and vlc in the early kde4 fiasco, dropped amarok in the early kde4 fiasco
as well, for mpd and various tiny front-ends that together still were far
smaller and less dependency heavy than amarok), and hotkey daemon
(dropped khotkeys in the kde4 fiasco when it couldn't handle serial-multi-
key triggers as kde3's khotkeys did, for a hybrid setup composed of
various scripts, xdotool, sxhkd, etc, with wayland I'll have to modify it
somewhat and trigger it with khotkeys again, but the base setup will
still work)... I found I was using *much* lighter kde than I was back in
the kde3 era, and ironically given that at one point I had contemplated
trying to switch off of gtk for the few apps I had using it, I was and
remain far closer to being able to ditch qt/kde and switch everything to
But there was a nice upside for kde as well, since now that I wasn't
using it for much more than the desktop and a few games and my kde
installation was far lighter, I could, and did and still do (with a
period during the frameworks5 upgrade when I didn't) actually switch to
running live-git kde/frameworks/plasma/apps, built from the gentoo/kde
overlay and updated typically a time or two a week.
So these days kde (and the gentoo/kde folks too) gets far better bug
reports from me, often bisected to the specific git commit that triggered
the problem, so they can fix it before release. Tho it's limited to the
relatively small subset of kde-plasma and apps, together with the
frameworks they pull in, that I actually run.
> I remember a conversation not long after KDE4 came out about QT
> dependencies and KDE. I would think that Trinity would stick with the
> latest QT just for support issues. The primary KDE apps I'm hooked on
> are things like Krusader, SoundKonverter, Ksnapshot, K3B, Krename,
> things like that. Most stuff I use desktop independent like Synaptic,
> Chrome, etc or mix in Gnome apps like Gimp, Gphoto, etc. Kmail is my
> favorite mail platform but I I switched to web mail a long time ago.
I won't/can't use chrome/opera and the like because they're not
freedomware and I don't and can't agree to the servantware licenses that
are arguably a condition for running them legally (and even if not, I'd
not /want/ to run servantware from someone who doesn't consider it a
right of the user to view/change/share-as-changed-or-not the sources
/and/ the binary, preferably with a copyleft provision that ensures the
same rights get passed on in turn to those the source and/or binaries are
But as to the desktop independent stuff, as should be obvious from the
above, I'm definitely with you!
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman