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Re: CSS to look more like Gtk+ 2




This will probably be my only intervention on this topic.

Le nonidi 29 frimaire, an CCXXV, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit :
> I honestly could live without the contempt and entitlement that have
> been expressed in this (and other) threads.

Contempt is usually a symmetric thing. If users felt less contempt from
some developers about their needs and preferences, maybe they would
express their complaints and requests in a milder manner.

> "gtk3-nocsd" is a massive hack that undoes what application developers
> want to achieve in the first place.

I will not contradict this.

> It's entirely your prerogative to hack on your own copy of GTK+, but
> that's simply a broken approach. GTK has nothing to do with
> client-side decorations, outside of:
> 
>  * providing an API for using them from applications
>  * using them for the dialogue windows it creates — *if* the
> configuration toggle for them is set

"I did not kill anybody, I only designed and built the guns."

This is, mutatis mutandis and with all proportions of severity scaled,
exactly the same argument, and it amounts to nothing.

I will assume that CSD were implemented in Gtk+ because application
developers requested it; if it was an initiative from the Gtk+
developers, it is even worse.

When CSD were requested, the Gtk+ developers should have taken a stand:
"no, CSD are an awful UI design, we will not implement it in our
library". They did just that when application developers requested
window-in-window multi-document interface, and I supported them
heartedly.

Instead, they (you?) took a stand against users, not only by
implementing it but also by making it impossible to disable it.

> This is ridiculous.
> 
> The people that "get to decide" are:
> 
>  * application developers
>  * toolkit developers

Nice view on the whole Libre software thing.

> Additionally, you're entitled by the license used to take the code and
> do what you want with it.
> 
> Those are the only two things you can "decide": whether to involve
> yourself in the development upstream, or fork it and take matters in
> your own hands.

A fork is exactly what you will eventually get. You are very wrong to
encourage it. I lived a fork from the inside six years ago, and it was
awful, we are still not fully recovered.

> GNOME developers are the reason GTK+ exists in the first place,

Sorry, despite mostly lurking, I have been around longer than you, and
you are wrong: Gtk+ exists because of Gimp, not Gnome.

And the policy turned sour about the same time the Gnome developers
overflowed the original Gimp developers.

> Writing free software is not software development camp. You don't get
> a prize just for showing up. Either you put your money where your
> mouth is, or you don't get to say "you know better".

You are funny.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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