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Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd)




In-Reply-To: <20190528110506.12328afe@debian9>

Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@xxxxxxxxx>
...
>I read both sides.  Pro and Con.  Good and Evil.  I'm VERY pragmatic
>and thorough.  I tested. Evaluated. Decided: systemd was a behemoth as
>an init, too system pervasive and didn't follow the basic Unix
>philosophy.  It just tried to do too much, was adopted too soon (before
>it was mature enough), and that was a recipe for problems in my
>opinion. KISS.
<snip>
>I keep up.  It's getting better.  But the problem is apps, etc. having
>systemd as a DEPENDENCY.  And that's the programmer's fault. The init
>(or any of its parts) regardless of which one it is -- systemd, sysv,
>upstart, runit, etc. -- should never be a dependency.  I should be able
>to run any init I want without it adversely affecting the system,
>the apps, etc.
>
>> It's a good topic, if you think this is a bug, please report it.
>
>I don't think it's a bug.  Just a dependency issue caused by the way
>systemd is designed.

I hear what you are saying, and it all seems pretty accurate.  The thing 
that you don't mention is that once you decide to deviate from debian 
defaults, you really can't expect anyone else to sympathize too much.  
You have freedom, you chose not to use systemd as init for various 
reasons.  SysV is not compatible with some newer stuff.  I don't have the 
list, but I have been aware of it for awhile.

You will have to be able to navigate well on your own when you leave the 
mapped area.

I don't see how we as users can tell developers what to do.  I don't think 
debian has that many developers anyway, they are just packagers, which is 
a different skill.  Half the dudes probably have no idea what this stuff 
is doing.  To me the reason there are dependencies in the first place is 
debian maintainers don't want to figure things out, they just want to pack 
it up and get it out the door, complying with whatever policy debian has.  
That's fine with me, because I sure don't want that job.

Once you leave the farm, and get into these alternate setups, it's really 
important to report the bugs, because you're on the fringe.  If you fail 
to do this, then things could get badly broken in a short time.  Nobody 
wants that, but nobody wants a lot of drama over it either...