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Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd)

On Mon, 27 May 2019 13:00:37 -0400 (EDT)
bw <bwtnguy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <20190527090258.213ecf5a@debian9>
> >From: Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@xxxxxxxxx>
> >My post WAS initially a report of anamolous behavior during
> >an install.  I had read of other systemd quirks.  (If no one knows, how
> >can it be fixed?)  The last paragraph asking for network manager
> >recommendations other than wicd was an afterthought.  You are correct:
> >I should have made it two posts.  
> Not so much a report of anomolous behavior by your computer, but an 
> anomolous setup, since you have "converted" stretch in a way that you 
> don't explain.  You also still haven't shown the apt output that made you 
> believe installing wicd tempts systemd to behave insidiuously...

The conversion to sysvinit was the approved method in Debian's own docs:
apt (or apt-get) install sysvinit-core.

On the simulated install of wicd, the only important items were that
systemd-sysv was being INSTALLED and sysvinit-core REMOVED.  That was
good enough for me not to do it. The point is, it shouldn't have
happened at all.

> You say you have read of other systemd quirks.  Like what?  I'd suspect 
> you have been flirting with disaster and trying to figure out if you can 
> totally remove it?  

I haven't removed all of systemd. Except for systemd-sysv which was
removed by the conversion process, all the systemd libraries remain. I
researched its total removal from places like systemdless.org, etc.,
and discovered all the hoops I'd have to jump through to make it work,
deduced potential problems it would cause, and decided to just use
Debian's "approved" method of replacing systemd as init.  And in the
process, recovered 6 to 7 MB of RAM.

As far as quirks, from my own experience when I initially tested
Stretch (as a late RC in 2017 IIRC) by installing in VirtualBox, and
after installing sysvinit, on update/upgrades,  it would try to
reinstall systemd-sysv. I reinstalled Stretch a couple times thinking I
may be at fault, but after about 2 weeks, it accepted the conversion to
sysvinit and never tried to reinstall systemd-sysv under any
circumstances until now.

As far as what I've read, much of it was on this list both with
Jessie and Stretch: reading/executing sysv scripts incorrectly or not
reading them at all, problems booting, applications not running or
crashing, etc. These are my general recollections.  I wrote much of the
problems off due to infamiliarity with systemd, but some of it at
the time I considered to be systemd immaturity.  

> Isn't it possibly insidious of you to not provide any details in your post 
> after creating an inflammatory title for it?

No.  Based on my past experiences and research with systemd, I now
always have do simulated installs with everything just to be sure
nothing untoward happens.  The Subject Title was appropriate.