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Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster




On 4/10/19 10:10 PM, David Wright wrote:
On Thu 11 Apr 2019 at 00:34:04 (+0200), Nazar Zhuk wrote:
On 4/10/19 10:58 AM, David Wright wrote:
On Sat 06 Apr 2019 at 08:42:31 (+0100), Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 09:39:23PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

Given a straight toss-up though, I think synaptic has to give way because
there are plenty of alternatives. I'd never heard of it until a few people
started mentioning it here, and I'd never consider using it myself on X except
as an ordinary user.

The severity of the bug in synaptic (which is what has caused its autoremoval)
would not be "serious" if the default desktop was not Wayland. So changing
*that*, would mean synaptic could be reintroduced.

So Debian should have its policy dictated by bugs in an unrelated
package. Seems an odd strategy.

If a change (Wayland default) is introducing issues to a stable (in a
generic sense) system, shouldn't the change be postponed until the
issues are resolved? Perhaps with the help from the change proponents.

I don't think it's an issue that'll be resolved in the direction you
intend. It's the enforcement of a security model that has guided most
of us for years: not running GUI applications as root.

In all of history of UNIX and Linux, root means root. You know what you are doing and accept the risks. rm -rf /, vim or wget under root are dangerous too.

And Wayland doesn't actually change that, since nothing can, root is still root. You can do:

  xhost +SI:localuser:root

and run whatever you want as root. This is exactly what the latest gparted does [1].

So this "security model" boils down to an annoyance.

[1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gparted/blob/master/gparted.in#L70

The normal way of circumventing this is to have a non-GUI program that
performs all the work running as root, with a connection to a GUI
client program that runs as the user/administrator.

Yes, that is the Wayland way. And it's now Wayland way or no way for all, not just Wayland users.

... for synaptic, it might be written in such a
way that you can get the resolver to run with your friendly interface
as an ordinary user, and then use apt-get, say, to install the list
of packages that synaptic has come up with. ...

Or just wrap it with a shell script that adds/removes root with xhost like gparted does, unless somebody has a compelling desire to *implement* (as opposed to force someone else to implement) "Wayland way".

I tested this and it works like a charm.


These are the things that should be considered and resolved when making a breaking change (Wayland default).

--
Nazar