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Re: text editors

David Wright <deblis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> On Thu 28 Mar 2019 at 08:30:47 (+0000), Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
>> >>>>> "JH" == John Hasler <jhasler@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>> JH> deloptes writes:
>> >> learning emacs means learning lisp
>> JH> Not true.
>> In my experience is true. But needs some more words.
>> When you intensively start using Emacs, and you start asking to the
>> editor "Oh, True One Editor, what is the meaning of this keystroke?"
>> (😊) and see the answer, when you take a look to the .emacs of a more
>> experienced user, you see, sooner or later you understand that there
>> is a way to tell Emacs how "to do useful things"[*]. And since these
>> things are useful to you, you learn to do them. Even if you do not
>> know that what you are doing is "programming in LISP".
>> [*] I lost the source where I read that in an organization even
>> secretaries used Emacs, and that these secretaries learnt how to do
>> "useful things" without a problem. Mostly because they were unaware
>> they were programming.
> I would have thought that secretaries were more competent at
> cut-and-paste than I am, and that is the way in which I have assembled
> my ~250 line emacs startup file. That, and substituting one string
> for another in these pasted sections and seeing if they still work.
> I'm afraid I don't call that programming in *lisp or learning *lisp.

Don't secretaries, i've seen a lot that would make better programmers
than whom they work looking at the macros they use.

> Some of the code dates back to lenny, and I have no idea whether it
> ought still to be there, or whether it's having a desirable or
> undesirable effect. I suspect it, and some other bits have atrophied.
> When I read through it (like now), I find useful things that I'd
> forgotten I had set up. OTOH I rely on much of it all the time.
> If you call the programming/learning, then that's where our
> disagreement lies, and not in emacs at all. You could equally
> be talking about those incantations that I feed to ALSA.
> Cheers,
> David.

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