Web lists-archives.com

Re: Let's play "Where is X?" (was: logout kills X)




Jonathan de Boyne Pollard composed on 2019-02-02 22:01 (UTC):

> Felix Miata:

>> Indeed. It's what I had in mind when I responded. I'll give one guess 
>> where it came from..... Time's up. Yes, systemd. Who couldn't have 
>> guessed. It imposed a notion that I first noticed.... (wish to guess 
>> where?) Yup, on Fedora, home of Leonard P, under the aegis of RedHat, 
>> and Gnome. ....that X somehow belongs on |tty1| instead of |tty7|.

> This is quite wrong.  Neither systemd nor Lennart Poettering imposed 
> such a notion.  The RedHat people had the idea of moving the X server to 
> |tty1| in 2008.  It wasn't Lennart Poettering's idea, as can be seen by 
> reading the list of people on the Fedora doco of the idea, and it 
> pre-dates systemd's /very invention/ by two years.  It was motivated by 
> reducing mode-change flicker during the boot process, by avoiding KVT 
> switching, and at the time Fedora was using upstart.  Ironically, the 
> idea /was imposed upon/ systemd and Lennart Poettering, which had to 
> adjust to accommodate it.

The devil is in the details. This was around 10 years ago and I was writing from fuzzy memory. Is
it really wrong in an overall sense when you do not omit from the quote all that I wrote, in
particular this part?:

"and avoiding encountering a dastardly video mode switch known as "flicker" before a GUI login
greeter appeared."

Fedora wanted to get rid of a /horrible/ /demon/ called flicker, as well as move the GUI to tty1,
and later in ancient history, Redhat instrumentality Leonnart's systemd incorporated
TTYVTDisallocate=yes as a partial means to accommodate it. No?

>   *

>     https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12772915

>   *

>     https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16104343

> The problem with the Bourne Again shell package's |clear_console| /is/ 
> KVT switching, and /similarly eliminating KVT switching/ fixes it (as I 
> explained back in 2015, when I published a replacement |clear_console| 
> <http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/clear_console.xml> that 
> did not do KVT switching).  There is nothing special about |tty1| here; 
> and this is everything to do with a Bourne Again shell package tool that 
> uses a bodge to clear KVTs, and nothing to do with systemd.

Indeed the original thread's complaint's cause was/is clear_console, but only on Debian and
whichever of its derivatives follow suit. AFAIK, none of the non-.deb distros I've used (e.g.
Fedora, {open}SUSE) have ever utilized it. It's never bothered me on Debian or anywhere else
because I like what shows up, when allowed, on tty1, leaving it remain uncleared, reminding me this
is not Windows, and logging in intentionally only on tty2 and up.

Thanks for the history refresh from "The world wants you to clean your screen" and mailing list
links. I had no idea there were so many gettys, and Greg W's
http://mywiki.wooledge.org/SystemdNoClear is now bookmarked so I can switch to accepted practice
for overriding stupid settings when the urge strikes.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/