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Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd

On Tuesday 16 October 2018 05:23:33 tomas@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:01:46AM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> [...]
> > If sysvinit was removed from Debian, than this would increase the
> > amount of work for Devuan quite significantly, because lots of
> > individual Debian packages that currently implement sysvinit support
> > would slowly start not to, and Devuan would have to patch support
> > back in, over time.
> This is the most important point: at the end, it's the individual
> packagers who are doing the hard work. Personally I'm pretty unhappy
> about the Debian/Devuan split, which stems from a lot of distrust.
> I'm convinced that in the long term, this distrust is
> counter-productive for "both sides".
> Cheers
> -- tomás

This distrust seems to stem from the accusation that red hat, as the 
source of systemd, is in the NSA's pocket, the most serious charge I've 
read on these lists. This has the same flavor and distrust associated 
with selinux, which it seems has faded into the sands of time as it 
deserves to do. Given the past, not even close to honest reputation of 
the TLA's here, its entirely plausible.

I don't know, but that fact that the charge has been made seems almost 
like a microsoft planted rumor. If the intent was to split us up and 
reduce our marketplace and political power, I'd have to say its working.

And I d-mned sure don't like it.

The packagers, who probably have a better overall view of just what this 
thing called systemd is, should be speaking up to confirm or dispel this 
rumor, but those who do, tend to get shot at when they stick their heads 
up, so I cannot lay too much blame on their doorstep for not doing it.

We as a group, need to change our attitude toward the packagers as they 
try to hit a balance and give us good usefull code. There are channels 
to submit that which we think is wrong, called bugzilla. I think the 
packagers are doing a generally good, and often quite thankless job.

So here is my many thanks to them.

The only comment I'll make is that I would like to see the -Y option to 
ssh restored. Taking that away in jessie and stretch has been a huge 
hindrance in me getting what I want to do on my local network because it 
forces me to actually goto that machine to run its package manager's 
gui. That machine may not be equipt with a comfy office chair for such 
duties, it has another, more important function, and at my years, thats 
becoming a major hindrance.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>