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Re: iproute, NM, customary Sunday rant (was: Re: My wired

On Sunday 26 August 2018 10:04:38 Reco wrote:

> connection doesn't work suddenly (Debian sid))
> Reply-To:
> In-Reply-To: <201808260940.37925.gheskett@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 09:40:37AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 26 August 2018 08:55:55 Reco wrote:
> > > > The symbol of the wired connection says that the connection is
> > > > working. When i disable to use a wireless connection in the same
> > > > network, it works.
> > >
> > > Of all the ways to test network connection you just used the least
> > > informative one. Please share the output of "ip a l" and "ip ro l"
> > > next time this happens.
> >
> > Why do I have to read a mailing list to learn how to use these  new
> > ip tools. Those two examples tell me more than than 20 readings of
> > the man page, thank you Reco.
> You're welcome. It's how I learn stuff - commit into memory two or
> three 'use in all cases' invocations of the tool, and slowly learn the
> rest. One can easily tell a good manpage from a bad one - a good
> manpage have those two or three invocations in EXAMPLES section. A bad
> manpage lacks EXAMPLES. An abysmal manpage tells you the name of the
> tool, and that's it (most of the binaries shipped with GNOME belong in
> this category).
> iproute2 is an excellent, versatile tool. Sadly whoever wrote the tool
> hated to write documentation, hence the manpages of questionable
> quality.
> > > Network Manager. See above.
> >
> > Rant mode ON
> >
> > What I have never understood about N-M is why it tears down a
> > perfectly good, working connection, and spends 5 minutes trying to
> > establish a new one, and failing, leaving the poor user no way to
> > ask a mailing list for help. Thats unforgivable and unforgiven here.
> They called the thing NetworkMangler for a reason. It's also known as
> NotworkManager, and there's a reason for this too.
> > Theres some keywords
> > (mentioned in the man page in obtuse language IIRC) to use in e-n-i
> > to tell N_M to keep its malicious hands off a given interface, but
> > you have to read between the lines with your logical superpowers to
> > detect them.
> It's easily explained. NM is a RedHat project. More users = more
> testing. The best testing is provided by paying customers, so modern
> RHEL is unthinkable without NM (yes, it's possible to disable the
> thing, and yes, they won't tell you how).

Figures. I got tired of being one of RedHats lab rats, so I bailed on 
fedora at about F3. Mandrake had lots less near fatal diseases, but LCNC 
moved to ununtu, and since wheezy, to debian.

> Debian project strived all these years to deviate from upstream as
> little as possible, so in this case NM is forced down the throat to
> any DE user RedHat style.
> Luckily here, in Debian, we have sid, and what's more important -
> those poor souls that are willing to use sid on everyday's basis. That
> includes OP, and that's commendable to say the least - unearthing
> nasty bugs so us, stable users, won't have to.
> > There now, but for the longest time removing its starter script via
> > chkconfig or removing N-M with the package manager, not possible a
> > decade ago without its dependencies tearing down the system so I
> > used mc for that, nuking the binaries.
> While I prefer "don't install what you don't need approach", I fail to
> see why a simple "apt-get purge network-manager" did not to work for
> you.
That was a *buntu thing, started about 06:4 lts, which is what linuxcnc 
ran on a decade and change back. Eventually the guys in charge got tired 
of the churn from lts to lts, and moved to debian stable right after 
wheezy came out. They made lcnc run on the pi with jessie and have an 
experimental amd64 image spun for stretch which I am about to try, me 
being the designated canary in the coal mine I guess. But its hidden as 
they will want to have some shakedown users reports in before they 
respin an official release for folks who are making a living with it.

I'm waiting on a 4 drive qc cage from Newegg. My 3 drive cage now needs 3 
or 4 layers of scotch tape added to the back of the sda door to reliably 
connect a new 2T drive. Installing the 4 drive cage will require a bit 
of steel surgery on this tower, but will be worth it just from the 
improved drive cooling.  So I'm still on sdb, the wheezy install until 
that new cage is installed. sdd, my amandatapes drive, is currently in 
an oem shelf out of sight under the floppy slot, and running at 40C, too 
warm for spinning rust IMO. sdc is the old 1T drive amanda has been 
using since forever but I just 2 days ago gave it a 2T as the 1T was 
approaching, and occasionally exceeding 90% use. Although I've 
considered mounting it as /home and may at some point in the future, its 
had an immortal pill for years and years now. Spin hours will be past 
75,000 within the month.

Thanks Reco

Cheers, Gene Heskett
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>