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iproute, NM, customary Sunday rant (was: Re: My wired




connection doesn't work suddenly (Debian sid))
Reply-To: 
In-Reply-To: <201808260940.37925.gheskett@xxxxxxxxxxx>

On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 09:40:37AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 26 August 2018 08:55:55 Reco wrote:
> > > The symbol of the wired connection says that the connection is
> > > working. When i disable to use a wireless connection in the same
> > > network, it works.
> >
> > Of all the ways to test network connection you just used the least
> > informative one. Please share the output of "ip a l" and "ip ro l"
> > next time this happens.
> >
> Why do I have to read a mailing list to learn how to use these  new ip 
> tools. Those two examples tell me more than than 20 readings of the man 
> page, thank you Reco.

You're welcome. It's how I learn stuff - commit into memory two or three
'use in all cases' invocations of the tool, and slowly learn the rest.
One can easily tell a good manpage from a bad one - a good manpage have
those two or three invocations in EXAMPLES section. A bad manpage lacks
EXAMPLES. An abysmal manpage tells you the name of the tool, and that's
it (most of the binaries shipped with GNOME belong in this category).

iproute2 is an excellent, versatile tool. Sadly whoever wrote the tool
hated to write documentation, hence the manpages of questionable
quality.


> > Network Manager. See above.
> 
> Rant mode ON
> 
> What I have never understood about N-M is why it tears down a perfectly 
> good, working connection, and spends 5 minutes trying to establish a new 
> one, and failing, leaving the poor user no way to ask a mailing list for 
> help. Thats unforgivable and unforgiven here.

They called the thing NetworkMangler for a reason. It's also known as
NotworkManager, and there's a reason for this too.


> Theres some keywords 
> (mentioned in the man page in obtuse language IIRC) to use in e-n-i to 
> tell N_M to keep its malicious hands off a given interface, but you have 
> to read between the lines with your logical superpowers to detect them. 

It's easily explained. NM is a RedHat project. More users = more
testing. The best testing is provided by paying customers, so modern
RHEL is unthinkable without NM (yes, it's possible to disable the thing,
and yes, they won't tell you how).

Debian project strived all these years to deviate from upstream as
little as possible, so in this case NM is forced down the throat to any
DE user RedHat style.
Luckily here, in Debian, we have sid, and what's more important - those
poor souls that are willing to use sid on everyday's basis. That
includes OP, and that's commendable to say the least - unearthing nasty
bugs so us, stable users, won't have to.


> There now, but for the longest time removing its starter script via 
> chkconfig or removing N-M with the package manager, not possible a 
> decade ago without its dependencies tearing down the system so I used mc 
> for that, nuking the binaries.

While I prefer "don't install what you don't need approach", I fail to
see why a simple "apt-get purge network-manager" did not to work for
you.

Reco