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Re: Update on my update problem with gnome system.






On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 5:37 PM Brian <ad44@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue 29 May 2018 at 15:52:12 -0400, John Cunningham wrote:

> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:39 PM Brian <ad44@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > On Tue 29 May 2018 at 21:57:31 +0300, Abdullah Ramazanoğlu wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 29 May 2018 13:18:16 -0500 David Wright said:
> > > > On Tue 29 May 2018 at 18:38:40 (+0300), Abdullah Ramazanoğlu wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 29 May 2018 09:14:12 -0400 Greg Wooledge said:
> > > > > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 09:31:14PM +0300, Abdullah Ramazanoğlu
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --✁--------
> > > > > > > I never use apt, so I am relying on the man page.
> > > > --✃--------
> > > >
> > > > (That got snipped.)
> > > >
> > > > > > That's incorrect.  One of the differences between apt and apt-get
> > is
> > > > > > that apt WILL install new packages when doing "apt upgrade" (but it
> > > > > > will not remove existing packages).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another difference is that apt will remove all of the .deb files
> > from
> > > > > > /var/cache/apt/archives that were downloaded for the CURRENT apt
> > command
> > > > > > session (but will not remove any that were already there).  (This
> > > > > > behavior can be changed in a config file.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Hmm yes, apt upgrade do install new packages. I didn't look at the
> > man page
> > > > > for apt and assumed that -at least- the same keywords would work the
> > same
> > > > > in both apt and apt-get. I was wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Mmm.
> > >
> > > I think I owe an explanation regarding whether I referred to the man
> > page or
> > > not. :)
> > >
> > > For different operations and keywords like full-upgrade vs. dist-upgrade
> > I did
> > > refer to the man page, but it didn't occur to me that the exact same
> > keyword
> > > (upgrade) would behave different in apt, so I didn't cross check
> > behavior of
> > > "upgrade" in respective man pages. I simply assumed apt upgrade would
> > behave
> > > ditto apt-get upgrade.
> > >
> > > This is how I both do and don't look up at the man pages at the same
> > time.
> >
> > If a package is upgraded, surely a user would want any new packages
> > to be installed if they are required to satisfy dependencies. apt's
> > designed behaviour looks more sensible than apt-get's.
>
> Not necessarily. Sometimes the dependencies get out of hand, like when a
> big project adopts a small utility and then decides that the entire project
> is a dependency for the tiny utility.  It doesn't happen often, but it has
> happened to me. I like that apt-get upgrade updates everything else. If I
> decide I can stomach the other packages, I can always do a apt-get
> dist-upgrade and install them.

Your unfortunate (and undetailed) experience has to be balanced against
the benefits which accrue to most users in having an up-to-date Debian.

In my belief, it is right in the sweet spot in that regard.  It provides information and lets the user make the decision. It's much easier to do a dist-upgrade than to find and remove unwanted packages.

--John