Re: Removing libsystemd0 from a non-systemd system
- Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 12:40:13 -0700
- From: Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@xxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: Removing libsystemd0 from a non-systemd system
On Mon, 7 May 2018 01:25:15 +0000 (UTC) David Griffith <dave@xxxxxxx>
> On Sun, 6 May 2018, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 May 2018 02:44:16 +0000 (UTC) David Griffith
> > <dave@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> Have any advances been made in figuring out just how to remove
> >> libsystemd0 from a Debian 9 machine that's running sysvinit? The
> >> ongoing presence of libsystemd0 has caused slowly-progressing
> >> trouble with several machines of mine culminating in complete
> >> failure a couple days ago. Initially I thought this was unrelated
> >> to systemd, but now I tracked it down to systemd's remnants and
> >> the problem is progressing much faster with freshly-installed
> >> machines.
> > First, how exactly did you convert to sysvinit, etc? And what kind
> > of trouble?
> > I've been running Stretch with sysvinit for almost a year -- as
> > a personal machine, not a server -- and have had absolutely NO
> > problems. Here's the link I used:
> > http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_Stretch_installation
> > I used the very first conversion steps, the simplest one, and none
> > of the optional ones. No pinning. No third-party systemdless
> > repos, etc. I still have systemd libraries including libsystemd0
> > for those apps that have systemd as a dependenciy. No problems.
> > Totally removing systemd is a pain requiring third-party
> > systemdless repos and keeping a wary eye out for problems. I did it
> > a couple times as part of my experiments, and always had glitches.
> > One thing did just occur to me: Are you using the GNOME desktop?
> > I've heard stories about it and systemd. It is VERY dependent on
> > it. I haven't used GNOME whatever version for about 7 years. I use
> > only a window manager Openbox.
> I followed that same thing you did as soon as the machine was
> installed. I also did optional steps 2 and 3. I didn't do 1 because
> all the machines in question are headless. I stopped using GNOME
> when version 3 came out and switched to MATE for most of my desktop
I started with a basic terminal-only netinstall system. No X. No GUI,
etc. Once I had that initial system running, I converted it to sysvinit,
rebooted, and then added the rest leaving the systemd libraries
installed treating them like any other dependency. I left the system to
boot to a terminal where I log in and run startx, if I need the GUI.
So, no login manager or session manager.
I decided after numerous experiments with and without systemd
installed, and with and without third-party "no systemd" repos that
overall leaving the systemd libraries installed did nothing except take
up space, and they were there if some app needed them. I tried never to
install anything that had systemd or any part of it as a direct
dependency. So far, I've had no systemd issues.
> One of the symptoms that made me think libsystemd0 had something to
> do with it was the output of "apt-get upgrade". It would always
> report "1 not upgraded" or "2 not upgraded".
I experienced issues with trying to totally remove systemd. That's one
reason I went with the just leaving systemd installed philosophy. Plus,
I was wary of the third-party "no systemd" repos. Would the owner keep
them up-to-date, etc.? I wanted a stable, unbreakable system.
That "not upgraded" thing is the default to prevent, for stability's
sake, major number upgrades of installed files. Just do an "apt-get
dist-upgrade" to override. So, you installed 18.104.22.168 of something. A
standard upgrade will only install 3.2.X.XX. A dist-upgrade will
install 3.4.X.XX for example, but will not install 4.X.X.XX.
> The trouble manifested in dependency hell and networking that would
> mysteriously stop for no readily apparent reason (on reboot after
> kernel upgrade or out of the blue). Usually networking could be
> regained by doing a LISH login and manually turning on the network
> interfaces. Then interface names started changing randomly. This
> was after names like "eth0" and friends were abandoned. Servers died
> by way of networking only working halfway, no matter what I did. I
> was able to ssh in and do scp and rsync transfers, but that was about
Can't help here. Probably, removing some systemd library that some
utility needs is the culprit. I've discovered that sometimes something
that doesn't have a direct systemd dependency may depend on
something that does. That's why among other reasons I abandoned the "no
> What's the point of allowing libsystemd0 to exist when systemd has
> been purged?
That was answered by others.
> Is anyone working on a mechanism to allow for install-time selection
> of a desired init? I brought this up a few times since systemd came
> to Debian, but I've never heard anything more on this.
I asked that question when Jessie debuted. No one is. Certainly not
Debian. The only suggestion I got was to build my own preseeded install
disk, but that's not the answer -- You still have to install systemd
first and convert.