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Re: is Wayland/Weston mature enough to be the default desktop choice in Buster?

On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> I was surprised to learn — by way of synaptic being autoremoved — that
> the default desktop in Buster will be GNOME/Wayland. I personally do not
> think that Wayland is a sensible choice for the default *yet*; and if
> the consequence is that bugs for software that do not work properly with
> Wayland have their severity inflated such that they are autoremoved

Neither GNOME nor Wayland work on any screen-attached machine I own.
There's usually just a black screen, and/or a return to the login manager
(assuming it does start at all -- which is not granted for gdm3).

My machines are:

* an amd64 desktop:
  * nouveau: way too crashy to be considered "working".  With my old
    monitors (1280x1024 + 1200x1600) it crashed once a few hours, with
    new setup (2560x1600 + 1200x1600) it crashes every a couple of hours
    with regular work, or 7 times within an hour trying to watch a movie.
    With xfce, disabling the compositor makes it work.  With GNOME, it's
    AFAIK not an option (the fallback is gone, right?).
    The crashiness is not a fault of nouveau guys, but our beloved
    nVidia Corporation™® and their preciousss Intellectual Property.

  * nvidia proprietary: doesn't work with new kernels.  Sorry, but I do
    a kernel patch once in a while, waiting for proprietary crap to get
    updated is not an option.

  * (I've recently replaced the graphics card with an oldish AMD one;
    didn't get around to trying GNOME yet, sorry.)

* Pine{64,book}:
  simplefb.  GNOME no workie.

* RockPro64, used as a desktop (I'm typing these words on it):
  armsoc.  GNOME no workie.

* N900:
  didn't try.  I don't suspect it could work, though.

* Gemini:
  libhybris.  No way to run Wayland I guess, X GNOME probably either.

* Omega OAN133:
  crashes with a black screen (although it's been a while since I tried).

* an i386 desktop (used as a pedestal for RockPro):
  i915 [910GL].  Might or might not run, although the mandatory compositor
  on hardware this old would cause such a slideshow on 2560x1600 that it
  wouldn't be usable.

* qemu-kvm on work desktop:
  [Host GPU is i915 (HD530)]: black screen in default buster's GNOME
  (thus Wayland), Cinnamon at least gives a message.  Very likely something
  with qemu's configuration -- but work time is not supposed to be spent
  wrangling desktop environment problems, thus I did not investigate.

* qemu-tcg on home desktop, emulating powerpc, mips64el, ...
  GNOME: black screen, Cinnamon: error message.  (Tried a while ago.)

On every single of the above setups XFCE works perfectly.

> I think the default should be reconsidered.

+1.  With GNOME not working even on some amd64 machines, it's not fit to be
the default.  Technical reasons aside, the UI is non-ergonomic and
counter-intuitive, has broken systray, and suffers from CSD.

Once the black screen/crash problem is fixed, you may consider making
Wayland and/or GNOME the default again, but for Buster, that's a pretty bad

⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Did ya know that typing "test -j8" instead of "ctest -j8"
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ will make your testsuite pass much faster, and fix bugs?