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Re: Bug#881333: Qt with GLES on arm64 maintainer's decision - Was:: Upcoming Qt switch to OpenGL ES on arm64




On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 12:21:25PM -0500, Alan Corey wrote:
> Why couldn't you choose QT for Desktop or QT for ES OpenGL when you
> compile your program?  Supply both libraries?

Because this requires providing two separate *stacks* of source packages,
one for GL and one for GLES, which from Ubuntu's experience doing this
previously for Ubuntu Touch, I can say is a non-trivial amount of
maintenance overhead.

There is some prior art here that I could provide pointers to if the Debian
Qt maintainers did decide to take this on, but best case is that you still
have two sets of about a half dozen source packages that have to be kept in
sync.

> ES gives an enormous performance boost to little machines that need it,
> desktop OpenGL is more pretty pictures.

Long ago I heard rumors of development work on mesa that would allow it to
function as a proxy library, so that apps would link against libGL as needed
and the GL implementation would use a hardware-accelerated GLES driver where
possible, falling back to software GL where necessary.

Since we are still having this conversation about having to choose between
GL and GLES at compile time, I infer that this has not come to fruition.

> On 11/26/18, Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer <perezmeyer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > El lunes, 26 de noviembre de 2018 08:37:57 -03 Raphael Hertzog escribió:
> >> Hello Lisandro,
> >>
> >> TLDR: thank you for starting this discussion, it was required as it's not
> >> an easy decision to take as there is no realistic perfect solution,
> >
> > Our (team-wide) pleasure. This is something we have been digging since
> > 2015.
> >
> >> but I
> >> believe you took the wrong decision. Please consider deferring the
> >> decision to the technical committe by seeking his advice (point 6.1.3
> >> of the constitution
> >> https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.en.html#item-6).
> >
> > Will "kind of" do. Read below.
> >
> >
> >> On Sun, 25 Nov 2018, Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer wrote:
> >> > It seems now clear that the general consensus seems to expect:
> >> > = Qt available for both Desktop and ES OpenGL flavours
> >> > = If no change is possible, keep arm64 with Desktop OpenGL support
> >>
> >> I'm not pleased with how this discussion was handled. First of all,
> >> you did not leave enough time for all stakeholders to participate in
> >> the discussion (started on November 22th, closed November 25th, 3 days,
> >> that's not a reasonable timeframe in particular when 2 of the 3 days
> >> were in the week-end).
> >
> > My most sincere apologies if our timeframe do not fit yours.
> >
> > Now, wrt the decision: clearly the situation is very complex, involving many
> >
> > different kinds of arm64 devices, drivers, libraries et all. People involved
> >
> > have different opinions. We so far have been the proxy between them, be it
> > on
> > bugs, IRC or whatever other channels our users have to contact us. We prefer
> >
> > not to be this proxy anymore (again, read below).
> >
> > Besides we (Qt's team) have just learned that the Desktop/ES support is not
> >
> > tied to the hardware but to the driver. That's a particularly interesting
> > point.
> >
> > So:
> >
> > To quote my original mail, the "Qt available for both Desktop and ES OpenGL
> >
> > flavours" point remains unchanged: if someone wants to make it happen [s]he
> >
> > must join the team and support it from the inside. Remember there are little
> >
> > chances for this to happen in time for Buster.
> >
> > For the second point, "If no change is possible, keep arm64 with Desktop
> > OpenGL support", we have this position: we will keep the status quo,
> > deferring
> > users who want GLES support to Ubuntu.
> >
> > *But* we are open to change this for any arch (read it: support either one
> > or
> > the other technology) as long as the decision is taken by the technical
> > committee. As I wrote before, we will keep the status quo, so if anyone is
> > interested in any change feel free to contact the TC.
> >
> > Regards, Lisandro.
> >
> > --
> > Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer
> > http://perezmeyer.com.ar/
> > http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> -------------
> No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
> Cities are cages built to contain excess people and keep them from
> cluttering up nature.
> Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach
> 

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                   https://www.debian.org/
slangasek@xxxxxxxxxx                                     vorlon@xxxxxxxxxx

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