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Re: RFC: Naming convention for ILP64 variant of BLAS/LAPACK

On 22 Oct 2018, at 18:17, Ben Hutchings <ben@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-10-22 at 15:07 +0000, Mo Zhou wrote:
>> Hi Wookey and Bastian,
>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 06:51:16PM +0100, Wookey wrote:
>>> On 2018-10-21 17:16 +0200, Bastian Blank wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 09:51:15AM +0000, Mo Zhou wrote:
>>>>> about naming convention of SONAME and package name.
>>>>> As discussed in [1][2][3], Debian will need a set of ILP64[4] interface
>>>>> to BLAS/LAPACK in the future.
>>>> Could you please describe what you mean?  All 64-bit Debian
>>>> architectures are LP64.  So building a single binary using ILP64 will
>>>> even break the ABI for glibc and it will most likely not run very far.
>>>> (A file descriptor is defined as "int", so even the most basic file
>>>> calls will be incompatible.)
>> I missed some points in the original post. The proposal meant to add
>> a new set of BLAS/LAPACK packages that are compiled in ILP64, and the
>> existing BLAS/LAPACK API/ABI won't be changed and nothing will break.
>> Here is a detailed example for demonstration
>>  src:openblas
>>    bin:libopenblas-base (LP64, won't be changed at all)
>>      provides libblas.so.3
>> 	bin:libopenblas-dev (LP64, won't be changed at all)
>> 	  provides libblas.so
>> 	bin:libopenblas-ilp64 (ILP64, newly-added)
>> 	  provides libblas-ilp64.so.3
>> 	bin:libopenblas-ilp64-dev (ILP64, newly-added)
>> 	  provides libblas-ilp64.so
>> So there is no "ABI bump" but just "adding a new set of ABI". At the
>> same time, it won't result in any transition or breakage.
> The way we manage different basic ABIs in Debian is to define separate
> Debian architectures.  E.g. on x86-64 we have the amd64 (LP64) and x32
> (ILP32) architectures.
> How you can use an ILP64 library without also building applications for
> ILP64?  And then, don't you also need libc6 built for ILP64?

So there seems to be a lot of confusion about what this is, and as an observer
I went to read [1] as referenced by lumin. It's rather badly written but if you
scroll down to the table under "Coding for ILP64" it becomes clear that they
are not defining a new system ABI; C's int remains 32-bit. Of course, that
makes total sense, as otherwise how can you have 8-bit, 16-bit and 32-bit
integral types in POSIX C with only char and short, not to mention all the
incompatibilities everywhere? So, like many others here I'm sure, I don't think
this should be called "ILP64" at all; it's still LP64, just everything that was
an int in the BLAS API is now a 64-bit type. I would suggest referring to it as
something like BLAS64/LAPACK64, or, if people really insist on this
awfully-confusing ILP64 terminology, at least try and disambiguate by calling
it BLAS-ILP64.

TL;DR: This is not ILP64. This is an all-64-bit variant of the BLAS/LAPACK API.


[1] https://software.intel.com/en-us/mkl-linux-developer-guide-using-the-ilp64-interface-vs-lp64-interface