Re: problems in gjots2 and Debian
- Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 11:23:23 +0200
- From: Martin Steigerwald <martin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: problems in gjots2 and Debian
Rolf Leggewie - 18.04.18, 07:19:
> @ALL, it seems like no matter what I say, no matter how I explain my
> reasons, I cannot convince quite a number of people. So, I plan not
> to waste my time on trying anymore. Steve is much better of getting
> to the relevant points anyhow. I certainly made mistakes, I would
> say they are mostly cosmetic, questions of form I was simply unaware
> of, but others perceive them differently. I apologized, owned up to
> it and changed course. I had no ill intentions. Yet, I'm still the
> bad guy for a good number of people (I've been called "nasty" in
> private mail).
As just someone who mostly maintains one package (fio - flexible I/O
tester) I can certainly understand how you feel about that Lucas removed
you as a maintainer. Even after all my experience with letting go I bet
at least initially I would feel quite similar in case someone did this
to one of the packages I maintain.
While I do not agree to everything you wrote I think it was harmful when
other members of the community apparently tried to find everything that
you – in their opinion – did wrong.
Right now I do feel somewhat disturbed about the tone of some mails in
this thread as I received it. From my experience in other communities
like KDE or Devuan as well as (at many other times or other places) also
Debian I know it is possible to discuss and work together in a more
> I get all this for maintaining a number of packages for 10+ years in
> Debian and when I complain that one of the "packages I maintain" (!)
> AKA "my package" is stolen from me? I get basically told (by some)
> that my packages in collab-maint are free-for-all to upload as they
> please, demote me and disrespect my work as they please, I basically
> get told that I'm not free to choose NOT to host on such a service by
> somebody else. WTF? The aggressors who were the ones to violate
> proper processes on the other hand get a public pat on the back for
> manly behaviour and "no need to apologize" for failing twice. OK, I
> got the message...
I wonder whether you let others move you into a victim position ("OK, I
got the message…" and "no need to apologize" as in I want an apology in
order to be happy again). I think an apology towards you would be
appropriate and helpful here. However I´d ask myself whether depending
on it would be helpful for me.
I noticed a lot of blaming in this thread from quite some people.
However… all that blaming does it to fix the current situation in place.
Cause blaming is moving all power to the other party aka "if only they
would change, I would be okay". However, it does not work that way.
I appreciate that you did your best to own your actions and while I do
not use gjots2 and I am not sure I use one of your other packages I
appreciate and am thankful for the effort you spent on Debian packages.
I do not advice you how to deal with what you experienced and I can
certainly understand if you are not that motivated to move on with
contributing to Debian at the moment.
Debian got as big and successful as it is due to a lot of people working
on it. Blaming each other is not going to help. We are all in this human
experience together… no one is any more perfect or less perfect than the
other. I wonder what is beyond right or wrong… and whether what happened
may be just be what happened without it being the fault of anybody.
Fault-free living… how could that look like?