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Bug#886493: general: debian should support nosystemd build profile

Hi Britton,

On Sat, Jan 06, 2018 at 09:34:32AM -0900, Britton Kerin wrote:
> If debian is remotely serious about keeping non-systmed use an option,
> is should support a nosystemd build profile.  There's no other real
> way to guarantee that packages don't use it.  Sure they don't *have*
> to link against it, but in practice many will and this is the obvious
> clean way to ensure that none do so.

There is a defensible reason to ensure that no package *requires* that
PID1 is systemd. If you have patches for packages so that they stop
requiring systemd, please do file bugs, preferably with those patches.
If individual maintainers reject those patches with "Debian no longer
supports sysvinit, please go away", then I think these individual
maintainers are *wrong*, and you should bring it up here.

Whether that is the consensus is not clear at this point in time. I
think it should be, but I cannot claim to know Debian's position in this
argument without a GR.

Traditionally, Debian has always compiled in all optional code so that
as many things as possible can be supported out of the box with no
recompilations necessary (after all, we are not Gentoo). One result of
that is that Debian links some binaries against libselinux and
libapparmor at the same time, even though no system ever can support
running both together. The same would appear to be true for systemd;
there is no libsysvinit (why would there be) so we don't link against
libsystemd and libsysvinit at the same time, but other than that you
might as well assume that we do.

In light of the above, there is no defensible reason to make sure no
Debian system runs any code from src:systemd. Requests to do so will
only ever be met with "we won't do that, please go away".

Since this is such a request, closing the bug is the right ting to do.

> As a long-time user I'm highly interested in this feature, and
> preventing others from working on it for idealogical reasons is
> indefensible.

This is not an ideological reason. Saying "no systemd support will ever
be accepted" would be, but that is not what this is. The technical
reason is: compiling packages against systemd code does in no way
prevent the usage of sysvinit.

If you want to support running Debian without systemd, then what we need
are patches for packages that require systemd to be PID1 so that they no
longer do, or new code to support the logind etc APIs outside of
systemd. If you provide that and they are rejected, please bring that up

Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008