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Re: Bug#886238: Please introduce official nosystemd build profile

On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 09:55:44AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Hleb Valoshka <375gnu@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
> > Please introduce official nosystemd build profile so downstream
> > distributions can send patches to package maintainers with systemd-less
> > build instead of keep them in home.
> If this is about avoiding linking with libsystemd, I think this is
> unbelievably silly and a completely waste of maintainer time and emotional
> energy.

Yeah -- and, unlike most people in this thread, I do maintain a repository
which does that:

deb	https://angband.pl/debian nosystemd-buster main
deb-src	https://angband.pl/debian nosystemd-buster main
(instructions and key at https://angband.pl/deb/archive.html)

The only reason to avoid libsystemd0 is a cheap way to make sure systemd
paths are not used; some packages (I forgot which) have regressions when
compiled with systemd support as they detect its presence at compile time
rather than runtime.

> I'm one of the people who has been advocating for continuing to support
> systems without systemd running.  I think that's both meaningful and
> important.  Avoiding linking with a shared library that does nothing when
> systemd is not running is neither meaningful nor important.  Please do not
> squander other people's good will on trivia like this.

While libsystemd0 is indeed harmless, there are cases where such a build
profile would be worthwhile:
* utopia stack (policykit and friends) which have a hard dependency on
* dependencies on libpam-systemd (including "mere" Recommends, which make
  apt force an init switch or abort an upgrade without a workaround obvious
  to an user who doesn't know what to look for)

On the other hand, rebuilding with a build profile is useful only for
derivatives.  What about looking for a solution that would help users of
unmodified Debian instead?

-shim is moribund (and never worked right even when it was maintained),
thus installing it on systems with modular inits is damage.  I believe this
is the problem that should be solved first -- because all non-trivial cases
mentioned above use logind or an equivalent, and to implement a profile you
need to know what alternate dependency to use.

The name I hear the most is elogind, but other options also get mentioned.
It'd be good if someone more knowledgeable could say more; I think multiple
Debian derivatives are experimenting here.

Once such a solution is chosen, implemented and tested, only then it'll be
time to fix dependencies -- inside Debian rather than some derivative.

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