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Re: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint)

Le lundi, 4 décembre 2017, 23.18:21 h CET Philipp Kern a écrit :
> On 04.12.2017 19:03, Holger Levsen wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 05:36:30PM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> >> Lars Wirzenius writes:
> >>> Myself, I would prefer us to keep both the free-software-only ISO and
> >>> the non-free ISO with firmware and other things needed to get typical
> >>> modern hardware running, and improve the discoverability of the
> >>> latter. I think we can do that without having to have a GR to change
> >>> the Social Contract or the DFSG.
> >> 
> >> Yes.
> > 
> > yes, I also agree this would work and be better than the status-quo.
> > however I'm inclined to believe doing this and adding a fourth repo,
> > non-free-firmware (additionally to main, contrib and non-free) would
> > be even better and also not need a GR.
> I like that this *finally* gets some traction. I have floated a GR
> before but people seem to be reluctant to have yet another vote.

It's a healthy discussion to be had, but we really should stop being scared by 
GRs. We had 3 in 2016 without much problems afterall.

Instead of assuming a consensus from a debian-devel discussion, I certainly 
see value in both the wordsmithing happening during the discussion, and in the 
relative weighing of various slightly nuanced versions that comes as output 
from the vote.

There's also value for the Debian project to be explicit when and if diverging 
from a longstanding tradition. We're discussing various different options 
here, and they don't all have the same symbolic weight:
* making the current "embeds distributable non-free firmware" ISO image more 
* splitting non-free in subsets;
* adding a non-free-firmware area;
* making the above ISO image the default image;
* etc.

To be honest, I don't think we are currently at a point in the discussion 
where we all feel the same consensus given the above (non-finite) set of 
options. Having an explicit vote will help better understanding where we stand 
as a project; also how we prioritise these.

tl:dr; don't be afraid of a GR, just do it calmly :-)