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Re: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint)

On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 11:21:49PM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> and the Debian Project promotes hardware that doesn't
> require non-free firmware (because the Debian system by default needs no
> extra drivers for that hardware).
... equally with the hardware that uses pre-flashed firmware.

> > I don't think so. Where are we prominently explaining the problem?
> > Where are the links to the unencumbered hardware that people
> > could/should be using instead?
> This rhetorical question suggests that it's not the place of the Debian
> Project to promote specific hardware. I agree with that.
> On the other hand, we recognise, and can certainly draw attention to,
> hardware that works with entirely free software;
... not counting the software installed outside the OS.

> and we can refuse to lend our effort to any reduction of software
> freedom for our users.
"Freedom is slavery".

> > Are *you* using non-free firmware?
> The machines sold by, for example, ThinkPenguin, work with the latest
> Debian release, without non-free software. 
... by using the firmware on the boards.

> That distinction – there is hardware which works with entirely free
> software, and we work to keep it so – is one of the most valuable things
> the Debian Project does
Oh yeah.

> There are, of course, hardware vendors that expend a lot of effort in
> opposition to that goal.
E.g. by providing firmware updates and requiring the OS to load them.


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