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Re: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint)

On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 08:28:49AM +0000, Simon McVittie wrote:
I doubt there was any such decision, except by not knowing there was a
decision that could be made. The official, fully Free ISO (which is OK
for VMs and some embedded systems, but normally a trap for the PCs we
expect new users to be using) is the one you get when you point a browser
to debian.org and click the prominent "Download Debian" link. The one
with the firmware is hidden behind a door marked "beware of the leopard"
because we don't want to be seen to be endorsing or recommending non-free

Simon, your mail has really motivated me to stick my head up a bit,
because I'm really uncomfortable with the status quo with this exact
issue in Debian, and although I think it will be very difficult and
quite possibly painful, I think something needs to change, and your mail
has helped me to face up to that.

IMHO, we need to go (more) one way or the other. We either reaffirm that
firmware is in-scope for our DFSG values and stop compromising it with
the non-free install images, or we look to revise the DFSG in line with
modern realities and can "promote" the status of the installer images
with firmware. That seems much harder: there have been brave efforts
to reform the DFSG before, not least by Ian; and they have not
succeeded. However, I think the project is healthier in one way from
those days, we've weathered some fierce debates and I think we've grown
as a project in the way we communicate together to resolve problems.

I know I've needed non-free firmware on every single laptop I've ever
used Debian with and I suspect that's true for nearly everyone.


⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.