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Re: Bits from the 10th Debian Groupware Meeting




Hi.

Christian Seiler - 03.08.17, 17:34:
> On 08/03/2017 03:21 PM, Rainer Dorsch wrote:
> > thank you for all the links.  My main question was why it is not listed at
> > all in the groupware wiki, you could easily list nextcloud/owncloud in
> > the section "Groupware projects not currently considered for inclusion in
> > Debian".
> It's a wiki, feel free to add it. :)
> 
> > For the technical part, I am wondering if that is still a real issue. I
> > see
> > the latest version 12.0.0 was released at May 22 2017, since then there
> > was
> > not even a bugfix release.
> 
> In terms of Debian release cycles that is still a very short time.
> 
> And the main issue here wasn't the release frequency; the main issues
> were:
> 
>  - most importantly: how to support updates from Debian release X to
>    X + 1, and upstream didn't want to support that at all, because the
>    amount of minor versions between two Debian releases was too much

Yes. You nicely summarized it. Seafile for example has from/to versioned update 
scripts. And an update between several releases is easy: You just run all the 
update scripts in between. Owncloud didn´t provide for this and David Prévot  
back then put a lot of work around it, only to be accused of irresponsible by 
 Jos Poortvliet.

> My primary impression is that there's a mindset gap here: what I
> really like about Debian stable - especially for servers - is that
> the software included doesn't change except for security updates
> and other serious bugs. Especially if I administer something, and
> that something is not the primary thing I'm interested in in my
> daily life, then I really want to be able to basically install and
> forget the whole thing. And Debian provides me with that opportunity.
> And Debian provides the opportunity that when I upgrade Debian once
> every two or three years I can migrate my installation and only
> have to test invasive changes _once_ at that point.

Yes, and thats a principal mind gap between many web application developers 
and Debian.

I concur with your preference here. I don´t want to upgrade to major new 
software versions all three month. Thus I plan to install Seafile instead, but 
AFAIK there are only Seafile client packages ready for Debian. I´d love to see 
official Debian packages for the server component, but currently see myself 
putting time into this.
 
> > 2) If Nexcloud is interested to bring their software into the debian repo,
> > they can help run their regression tests on the upgrade path implemented
> > for Debian stable releases (which happens infrequently)
> 
> Well, sure, if they were interested in supporting these kinds
> of upgrade paths, which they strongly implied that they are
> not.

Fairly enough this was with Owncloud upstream… and more than a year ago. I 
believe many Owncloud developers moved on to Nextcloud… so I belief Nextcloud 
upstream consists of mostly the same people… I never really confirmed that 
belief, beyond anecdotical statements I read in several blog posts.

Thanks,
-- 
Martin