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Re: Debian built from non-Debian sources

Jonas wrote:
>Quoting Steve McIntyre (2017-07-16 22:14:29)
>> Jonas wrote:
>> >Quoting Andrey Rahmatullin (2017-07-16 19:28:06)
>> >> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 07:05:10PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> >> > Is our install images excepmt from our Policy that all dependencies must 
>> >> > be in Debian, or am I mistaken that we have such Policy?
>> >> Do we?  The Debian Policy covers only debs.
>> >> Also, dak isn't in the archive either.
>> >
>> >I thought Policy covered what we distribute - which excludes dak but 
>> >includes libisofs code embedded in installer images.
>> Can you identify any code at all from libisofs which is embedded in
>> the images? I'm honestly not aware of any.
>I believe the embedded MBR is part of the libisofs project.

No, the MBR is generated from the isolinux/syslinux packages. xorriso
(libisofs) just updates some pointers in there to point at the El
Torito bootable images, to add a fake partition table, etc.

>> I've been using upstream versions of xorriso on-and-off over the last 
>> few years, accepting assistance from the (very helpful!) upstream 
>> author Thomas Schmitt when trying to debug thorny issues like hybrid 
>> BIOS/UEFI booting.
>> The exact behaviour that we've worked out in some cases has needed 
>> upstream tweaks, and we've needed those tweaks from time to time in 
>> what we've released.
>No doubt the particular version of libisofs was used for good reasons.
>My concern is the ability to replicate and derive the least possible 
>from Debian resources like the install images.

ACK, understood.

>Concretely The Debian derivative PureOS is having trouble booting their 
>homemade live image on some hardware, but boots fine on both Debian 
>netinst image and Debian live image.  Looking at the properly working 
>images I noticed that the live image for stable was produced using 
>newer-than-stable libisofs,

Sorry, wrong. It was built using the standard xorriso and libisofs
versions in stretch. From the stretch-based VM used to build it:

root@STRETCH-debian-live-builder:~# dpkg -s xorriso | grep Version
Version: 1.4.6-1+b1
root@STRETCH-debian-live-builder:~# dpkg -s libisofs6 | grep Version
Version: 1.4.6-1

If the PureOS folks are having problems, they could ask on the
debian-cd list?

>and that the stable netinst image was produced using a
>never-in-Debian release of libisofs.

Right, I'll give you that one. But there's *seriously* nothing special
there any more than what you'd find in any backport to jessie.

>A related issue is bug#807168.
>> >Do we have any Policy on installer images?  If e.g. our netinst or 
>> >live images contain non-DFSG-but-free-to-distribute code would that 
>> >be only a wishlist bug, not a Policy violation?
>> That would be a serious bug IMHO - please raise any as you find them.
>Thanks for clarifying the severity of such theoretic bug specifically.
>It was just an example, however, and my real question was generally what 
>governs code we distribute outside packages - i.e. our install images, 
>if Debian Policy covers only packages.

Go argue with the Policy folks, I guess.

But a *lot* of the infrastructure we use to run Debian is not exactly
what's been packaged, as already mentioned. Look at dak. debian-cd,
live-wrapper et al *are* packaged, but we're not *necessarily* using
the exact code that's in the stable archive at any point. We're
typically using code from git on the build machines, to allow for more
flexibility in terms of changes to build scripts as problems arise. We
release things to the archive periodically as a convenience to users,
but serious use often necessitates using git too. This isn't going to
change any time soon.

Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@xxxxxxxxxx
"Because heaters aren't purple!" -- Catherine Pitt