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Re: IMPORTANT: Do live Debian images have a future?

at bottom :-

On 26/06/2017, Steve McIntyre <steve@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> [ Note the cross-posting... ]
> Hey folks,
> Background: we released live images for Stretch using new tooling,
> namely live-wrapper. It is better than what we had before (live-build)
> in a number of ways, particularly in terms of build reliability and
> some important new features (e.g. UEFI support). But it's also less
> mature and has seen less testing. There have been bugs because of
> that. I have fixes for most of the ones I know about [1], and I'm
> still working on more bugfixes yet.
> While the bugs are annoying, what worries me more is that they were
> only spotted in release builds. There had been testing versions of
> live images available for multiple weeks beforehand, presumably with
> the same bugs included. (Almost) none of them reported. This shows
> that we don't have enough people using these live images and/or caring
> about filing bugs.
> We have a similar lack of involvement in terms of the content of the
> live images. As I said above, I'm happy that we now have a reliable
> tool for building our live images - that makes my life much
> easier. But I honestly have no idea if the multiple desktop-specific
> live images are actually reasonable representations of each of the
> desktops. For example, I *seriously* hope that normal KDE
> installations are not effected by #865382 like our live KDE
> images. Validation by the various desktop teams would be useful here.
> The current situation is *not* good enough. I ended up getting
> involved in live image production because the images needed making,
> and I was already the main person organising production of Debian's
> official images. To be frank, I had (and still have) no direct use for
> the live images myself and I don't *particularly* care about them all
> that much. Despite that, I've ended up spending a lot of time working
> on them. A few other people have also spent a lot of time working in
> this area - thanks are due to those people too. But it's still not
> enough.
> If our live images are going to be good enough to meet the standards
> that Debian users deserve and expect, we need *consistent*,
> *sustained* involvement from a lot more people. Please tell me if
> you're going to help. If we don't see a radical improvement soon, I'll
> simply disable building live images altogether to remove the false
> promises they're making.
> [1]
> https://get.debian.org/images/release/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/#issues
> --
> Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.
> steve@xxxxxxxxxx
> "...In the UNIX world, people tend to interpret `non-technical user'
>  as meaning someone who's only ever written one device driver." -- Daniel
> Pead

One of the things at least to my mind is we (the users) do not know
which is most closest testing release  near to the final release. For
e.g.  take the last/latest announcement done by Cyril Brulebois on
13th June talking about the Stretch RC5 release. In the whole
announcement, there is not even a hint to potential testers that this
might be the closest to the final released (gold) image. I am
presuming/assuming that Cyril was also talking about the live image
and not the just the installer improvements.

What would be nicer/better perhaps if debian-live does announcements
on d-d-a  and more importantly hint as when it's going to be nearer to
release (final image).

We are going to have a release party this week-end in Pune (haven't
posted the details yet at https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyStretch
, hoping the organizers will do the needful otherwise will do it in a
day or two.

I/we could also have testing parties before the release as well with a
two-week window to the final image . This also gives times to students
to see how things work in the real world as well.

I can't volunteer for any activities atm (due to health issues) except
for taking part in organising testing party in Pune before release and
getting more people to file bugs in case they hit problems.

I am hopeful we can find a better way/solution to the above.

          Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
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